Passing The Torch #01: Finding a Mentor, with Etan Efrati and Jack Zerby

Marcos Bravo: Hello, everyone, my name is Marcos Bravo. And I want to welcome you to this first sort of pilot episode of our new podcasts with grown mentor, we want to focus on a different thing, we wanted to pause a little bit of the exact advice and step by step guides that we’ve done in the past. And we want to look into the stories of the people who make growth mentor, what it is the actual mentors and mentees. So we pick a really cool story for you to listen, I have the pleasure of interviewing, it’s on the frothy index survey, they met through the platform. They help each other through the platform. And eventually they end up building a six figure business that is rocking the world of startups. This story is super cool. These are one of my favorite people and growth mentor from now on. Sorry, Foti and Jessica, I still love you. And it was a great fun conversation that I really want you to listen so you can see what’s happening. What are the motivations for people to say I need help? What are the motivations for people to say, I can help and eventually, what’s behind people getting together and building amazing business. So without further ado, listen to the podcast.

Marcos Bravo: All right, well, great to have you guys here. I’d be looking forward to talking to both of you. Especially because the story is more than the success stories is something really cool. I guess it’s sort of the soul of what growth mentor really wants to do and connect people and all that. So I’m just gonna start with Ethan. First of all, great to have you over. And you are a mentor for growth mentor, right?

Etan Efrati: Yes, sir.

Marcos Bravo: So my first question here, and sort of interesting, because I’m a mentor, as well. And if you will ask me, why did I join? I had many, many reasons to like, Yeah, this is gonna be cool. But I want to know you, why did you join growth mentor? And why did you when did you feel that you actually have something to give something to teach something to? Basically mentor?

Etan Efrati: It’s kind of funny, because it’s a platform that’s created for selflessness. Forgiving, but if everybody comes with a little bit of a selfish reason, if you didn’t have a selfish reason, you wouldn’t really do it. Right. So my selfish reason was, I was coming out of six years in venture backed startups, leading growth teams, managing large budgets. And I knew that what I learned was more than just the hard skills, more than just a few lines on my LinkedIn profile. I knew that I developed a craft. And I was kind of at a career pivot as much of the world was at a career pivot during COVID. And I stumbled upon GrowthMentor. And the that time, I was basically trying to articulate what is this crap. And I was documenting, I actually came up with a growth system, a whole framework over a six year period, but I never hit the pause button to document it. So I figured GrowthMentor could be a great platform. Right? Excuse calls. And just by talking about it, and by teaching it, and it kind of had followed, right, I had done an online course, which was kind of like a pop up. Online Course, I wasn’t even charging for it. I just created like a bunch of notion pages, happy to share it, if anyone’s interested.

Marcos Bravo: We will definitely add the link. We’ll add the link somewhere.

Etan Efrati: I’m not promoting it, it was like this type of thing. Like you teach a subject just to learn it. Like that. That’s why I joined GrowthMentor, so anybody who I developed and it’s really like a prioritization framework, just like really all, you know, on one in one breath, prioritization framework, internet scale growth, it can be kind of daunting because you have infinite opportunities. But you have finite resources, you show up at the office, you show up for work every day, and it’s like, what do I do? What do I do with my time? What do I do with my dollars? What do I how do I lead my team? And so I developed a methodology for kind of distilling that down and simplifying it and was mentor was great. I think a lot of people benefited from it. And yeah, I ended up also picking up a few consulting clients. So Jack was one of my initial consulting clients now I’m no longer taking on a client work at all. I’m just I’m in house.

Marcos Bravo: Leaving the dream.

Etan Efrati: Yeah, I think so. Thank you.

Marcos Bravo: No, I mean, I totally get it. Because that’s what I thought when I generate Well, probably I’m gonna get a couple of customers out of here. But eventually I got used to what you were saying it’s like, it’s a great place to organize your own ideas to put stuff out there for free, and truly not caring exactly about like, well, hopefully, I’ll make some money out of that. Sometimes you just just put it out there because I can’t find any I can say it, I can put it out there and people can benefit from it. So I think that’s that’s a great feeling. And Jack on your side, you joined as a mentee. Right? Do you were looking for some help?

Jack Zerby: Yeah, I was looking for space in the in the marketing or we’re looking for advice in the marketing arena. Etan, you’re gonna tell me what the original request was.

Etan Efrati: I was in the Slack and I saw that you had posted this service. I don’t know Jack has this way about him. First of all, Jack, even though he’s unique, and talented in a very unique way. I put him in this box. In my framework, right? Like he’s gonna He’s like, product, a product guy who doesn’t know distribution, like that’s the boss that brought him in? And like, that’s, like, sweet spot for like growth? For growth? Yeah.

Marcos Bravo: How many times you guys talk to each other? Like, did you get a couple of meetings together, or you figure out that you can do stuff very early on.

Etan Efrati: We started in Slack, we did a few sessions. So I was gonna say I saw one of the products. Jack is a product. Maven, he’s always kind of designing and launching new products. But one of the products that he had it was so polished, and it was so focused, that I like I was just magnetized towards that I was like, I want to work with this guy. So I actually approached Jack before he approached me.

Jack Zerby: After that a few calls and the other thing, too, is I have had other calls on GrowthMentor too. And they always were great. Like, everybody was really smart. The advice was really good. And Etan was just one of those guys, I think I just connected with kind of out of the gate, just with the energy. I think we’re both. Now it’s kind of early for me, but like, give me like under two hours, my energy will be a lot high. But like him, and I have a lot of energy. And I think that it just kind of grew into like, maybe there’s, you know, maybe there’s an opportunity for a partnership. And it was funny, because the business we ended up starting together was a business that I wanted to shut down at the moment. Because I was getting overwhelmed with the pitch deck business. I remember when I came to you Etan I remember I was like, I can’t do this anymore.

Marcos Bravo: But that doesn’t mean it was a lot of business. Like you were getting too many requests.

Jack Zerby: There was a time where I think it was the one a time that you set up for me with the first VC. I think that’s what it was, you had made an intro to David Stark. So that was one of Etan’s idea was like, Look, I need to grow this pitch deck service, or whatever it is. And he’s like, Well, you should go do some webinars or Zoom calls with VCs, because they’re connected to a lot of startups. So I did one. And I think in one week, I closed 12 pitch decks. But the problem was, I remember getting all the bookings. And I remember I would like do a call and they’d be like, yes. And I gotta tell my wife like just closed another. And I was only charging like $2,000. And then I would get another one and another one another one. Pretty soon I’m like, oh, geez, I’m not going to be able to do this. Like this is not gonna work. And I remember like working like super late nights being super overwhelmed. The cool thing was is what Etan told me to do actually worked really well. And I was like, we need to do more of that. But I realized,

Etan Efrati: Beginner’s luck.

Marcos Bravo: I don’t know. Try this may work.

Jack Zerby: But looking back on it. I think what was really smart about Etan’s advice is that it was unique and it wasn’t like, hey, let’s run Facebook ads like right out of the gate. I remember you talked me out of running Facebook Ads.

Etan Efrati: That’s like my favorite GrowthMentor thing. People out of what they think they need in your head. That’s what I love. Is amazing.

Jack Zerby: I love marketing, I love copywriting, I love studying old copywriters and that sort of thing. But when it comes to like doing the actual marketing is where I’m like I need someone to help doing that actual thing. So with this one, it worked really well, because it was kind of coming at a right angle, because these VCs, there’s an inherent trust that startups have, especially if they’re a portfolio companies that they wouldn’t have allowed them to invest or there’s a partnership there. And so when a VC gives you that credibility to say, hey, we’re hosting Jack to do this, it immediately gives you that trust and credibility with the startups which made the closing these a lot easier. So that’s where, for me it was like, Okay, this business has something but I need a partner.

Marcos Bravo: At the moment you took it from a one man band to two band men, it’s just the two of you right now. Right?

Jack Zerby: Now we brought in and Sam.

Etan Efrati: Here’s the story. Jack, was Jack, the Freelancer doing done for you decks, he actually didn’t have a product. He had the demand for the product. But the product was a productized service. So once the demand side were what’s great. The growth challenges customer acquisition and then of course, you get into like activation and retention. But the customer acquisition, imagine like walking into a business where like the customer acquisition problem is solved.

Marcos Bravo: I would love that business. I would love to have that.

Etan Efrati: And the first thing we did was we just doubled the price. Because we’re like you’re under charging.

Jack Zerby: Way under charging.

Etan Efrati: We’re like, okay, at least if you’re going to be like working around the clock, and we don’t have the service side, we don’t have the product figured out yet. Let’s at least like charge a lot more money. So that that will give us a little breathing room to figure out the product. So it was two challenges. Really, it was number one, how do you scale acquisition? And then number two, how do you nail like the operations to actually build this out as a productized service? And this is the amazing thing about GrowthMentor, you’re not really connecting. Like, you know, material things, or you know, businesses, it’s not transactional. It’s all relational. It’s all about connecting people, connecting ideas. So really like what did Jack initially pick me? For the what was the GrowthMentor request? And then what did that end up eventually turning into a consulting gig and now we’re business partners. It’s like, I want to take my skills, and I don’t want to do the work. You figure out how to monetize my skills. I don’t want to be a freelancer anymore. I want to be director level and that eventually passive income, and that’s the gig like that’s what we’re working on.

Marcos Bravo: That’s the best part isn’t that you guys are testing or obviously you are in a way. But it’s working. That’s the main thing. And I’m already taking notes that like no Facebook Ads, double my price. That’s the first thing I’m doing after this.

Etan Efrati: It’s time the Facebook ads. So we’re going to be ready for Facebook Ads one day, but we’re two years in and we’re not there yet. Tell you that.

Jack Zerby: The other thing that’s interesting too, it’s so it to me, and I apologize if anybody has done this, but like, the craziest thing I can think of is like founder dating, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that where it’s so weird. Like, I will never want to meet a partner in business, I get some networking event like that. And it’s like so forced like that. And I think the thing that GrowthMentor works well, is that it allows to kind of operate on like a specific task in the beginning, like, hey, let’s work together. There might be some money exchanged, there might not be some money exchange. But either way, there’s like a very specific reason why and that person is willing to there they put the you know, a ton has put his name out there to help. I’m requesting help. So it’s around a very specific ask with a very specific outcome and a lot of ways. So it allows you to work with that person without being like expectations of them coming on as a partner. In fact, that’s not the expectation. And every business partner I’ve ever had, it’s evolved in there and you have to feel each other out on like trusting this person understanding their values, understanding who they are, how they approach business, and customers and money and things like that. Because when money starts getting involved, you know, I had to start at two startups for 10 years with two other partners that were like brothers to me, and they were theirs were millions of dollars involved. And anytime we could have, you know, screwed each other over for millions of dollars, or whatever, or taken a side deal, and we didn’t, and so that trust will never be taken away. And I think, between Etan and I, and Sam, our other partner, like, we just have a high level of trust for each other, especially now that, you know, we’re doing, you know, not millions of dollars, but doing a significant amount of revenue that those things come into play. You got to ease into that. It’s just like a marriage in a lot of ways.

Marcos Bravo: I remember getting Foti a bit mad at me, because it was when he pitched me GrowthMentor, it’s like Tinder for startups, that’s going here. No, no, there’s so much more than that. And it is and the way you’re putting it now, right? I mean, you get to develop this sort of relationship through a couple of calls or events or a workshop or whatever you do afterwards. And, and I think it becomes so much more deep, like if you made like, the relationship changes, because you you start working on things together, you understand each other’s idea. I mean, I had calls with people who say, Well, I’m making about $10 million a month and I would like to make more money than that. Now, I’m like, I wouldn’t even dream of making that much money, man. I’m like, I just want to pay the bills. But sure, I’ll give you advice. But at the same time, they trust your approach. I mean, you get to choose people, because of their approach, because of the way they talk the way they are they go the stuff that they don’t before. And eventually you have matches like this one. So what’s the name of that because I had it written somewhere.

Etan Efrati: Designfordecks.com. Now the number one boutique, pitch deck service, on the internet, we’ve done over $2 billion raised using design for decks designs. So we’re cheating a little bit because that includes one very large m&a transaction, but we’ve had large investment banks approach us to do m&a transactions, we’ve had a series B robotics company, raising $50 million, we’ve done one of the call it like one of the 10 most successful IPOs of the last decade, they formed, like newly minted millionaires from that IPO formed an angel investment group. And they’re a repeat customer. So they’re when they go out to raise their fund, to deploy capital for their angel group, we do their deck designs. And then like our bread and butter is seed kind of seed stage startups that are going to raise their series A because that’s when things start to get real, right. Like that’s when you go from like, just an idea to now like now you have traction in the market. And you’re going and you’re asking a bunch of investors for $5, $10 to $20 million. So your pitch deck needs this. The the founders who come to us like they actually don’t need to be sold. They understand they need it, they throw it away. We need this be polished. They need it to be pixel perfect. And that’s what Jack did. He has now designers working for him. We don’t call it remote. We call it distributed. So we have to repeat it teams. All over the world operations. We were briefly mentioned, a third partner that we brought on who’s managing our operations, and we’re building out partnerships with different communities. So yeah, it’s it’s rockin and rollin. We’re going into year, our first full second year, this year.

Jack Zerby: The other thing I would say about teams and partnerships, the ones that have been the most successful and that’s why it was easier to define those people on GrowthMentor because they are saying like what their expertise and category is a mine obviously was product and design. Etan was in marketing distribution. And so the teams and the partners that have worked best for me are the ones who have like very defined like, separated skills like doesn’t mean that there can’t be some overlap. But with having someone on the team, like Etan who understands distribution and marketing and then having another partner Sam, who understands a lot about processes and operations and client relations, and then me with the design expertize like that marriage of those three, I think is the key. Because there are times like I have friends that are really great designers and really great founders. My friend Bobby, who has started like big companies I would never start a company with Bobby. Because we’re both the designers. So we would both be constantly like, Man, I like that. And I like that you’d like that? I don’t like we would just be it would not. I don’t think it would work. So I think being able to find people in a way, like on the GrowthMentor app of being able to find these complementary skills out of the gate. Makes a lot of sense. So that’s the that was the big advantage, I think, is being able to find complementary skills.

Marcos Bravo: I like that too. I mean, the fact that you go there later, I will, this is the guy for that. That’s the guy for that. And then you get to talk to the right people, you didn’t just you’re not going to go and try to say, well, maybe these guys are going to be able to help me. For example, one of the things I was offering it was venting. Like, alright, let’s let’s have a cold for venting, just just call me and tell me all the crap that is happening right now in your company. And I’m telling you, stuff that happened to me. And you’ll feel better after the call. And calls like that, that you might think, well, it’s not going to help me much man it helped. They helped me to they. Well, well, I mean, now I know I’m not alone. And I know also that I’m helping out a little bit.

Etan Efrati: It’s a therapy. It is right? Yeah, definitely. And it’s so it’s so needed. It’s so needed in today’s worlds, like, we need the human connection to thrive. And to become our best selves. Like there’s we should destigmatize that, like altogether, you know?

Jack Zerby: And there’s a thing about asking for how to like, that’s not my inclination, my inclination was just to figure it out myself. And just do like what I was trying to do with the pitch deck business. I was like, No, I can do it all myself. I’ll figure it out. Obviously, that was just pride, right? And ego. But as I’m getting older, I realized that like, I don’t, I want to ask for help. And I want to have partners that are much better at me in certain areas, because it just doesn’t work otherwise. And you see that evolution with CEOs and certainly people that have mentored me over the years. I watched my boss, my first boss, Lisa Pentagram, you know, one of the the top graphic design firms in the world, she comes in, she’s MIT, Brown, Harvard, like all this pedigree. And she had always been a designer, like she was on the original team that designed to the little clippy thing in Microsoft, or the AI or something, maybe some some sort of involvement. But like all these like big projects, and watching her go from leader to now, or watching her go from designer to then letting go and leading team like small teams was really interesting to watch. So I think that’s the spirit of GrowthMentor, like, look, we can’t all do it. You know, like, Lisa couldn’t do all this work by herself. She had to have a small team, like we had a pentagram. And just like with anybody that comes on, inherently me asking for help is saying, like, I don’t know how to do this, and I need help.

Marcos Bravo: It’s really, and I think I made a post a long ago about it is one of those cheesy motivational posts. Like the hardest thing to say in business is I need help. I mean, you don’t have to really say it much. He’s gonna get help. Like, if you need him nobody’s asking you to help me just, man.

Etan Efrati: Just not Marcos. None of your posts are cheesy man. Your posts are spot on.

Marcos Bravo: I actually developed this technique. And every time I read something that is super obvious, I just go post totally the opposite. And our remote work is great. No, it’s not. But maybe I don’t know. Sometimes you just get to hook them somehow.

Etan Efrati: With you. I’m with you.

Marcos Bravo: So what’s next? What are you guys planning next? First of all, are you coming back to GrowthMentor like, sometimes do you talk to other people still?

Jack Zerby: Yeah, so I go through a season where it’s like I have a problem. And I have no one in my immediate network or partners to help me solve that. Now. It’s great. It’s funny. Is it hinge the dating app where it’s designed to be deleted? Did you ever see that marketing? That’s what they call their headline is like it’s designed to be deleted, essentially, meaning will match you and then you can delete the app, right? So there’s this idea of like, I’ll come in through a season of like, I don’t know what I’m doing on a new business and that’s where a GrowthMentor can come in as kind of an on demand sort of thing. But I would say GrowthMentor did its job. And I, I don’t need more help on the business that I went in there for it solved the problem. And I think that’s a true testament to what it is. And eventually, I’ll start another business if my wife lets me because every time I say I’m starting another one, so I can’t do another one. That will repeat again, right? So I think it’s like, we all got to go through these cycles, which I think, you know, which is the season of life.

Marcos Bravo: I like that, this is just like, you know they’re there for.

Jack Zerby: Yeah. And the thing about GrowthMentor market is they’ll never stop being those people that come in, they need help, they get their problem solved, boom, they go off, they do the thing that they came in to do, and then another person comes in. The amount of new businesses are being started. It’s, you know, it’s never ending.

Etan Efrati: I’m the same. Yeah, it’s like, you know, definitely seasonal. And I think a lot of businesses, maybe all businesses have the founders DNA. And then so the fact that Foti was an outsider, right, like, he did not come from Silicon Valley from like, the tech world, like, he created GrowthMentor for himself. And I think the world is kind of waking up to this fact that like the institutions, you know, that we all, you know, not we all but like some of us have, like these logos that, you know, oh, because I went to this school, or worked at this company, I feel a sense of accomplishment. But maybe that will give you some kind of initial credibility, so you can get in the door. But at the end of the day, like, if you don’t have the chops, and like you don’t have the talent, and you’re not nurturing that talent in an authentic way, then you’re not going to be able to provide value in what I would call, you know, the internet scale, you know, era like this decade. AI coming, like, you got to learn how to use it like exactly, you can run away from it knew that ZMA is like baked into the GrowthMentor platform. So I think I’m gonna be a lifetime lifetime member. It’s just such a cool, unpretentious little corner of the internet. And there’s magic, it’s you know magic.

Marcos Bravo: I like that. I’m going to sort of close the conversation with that thought. I mean, that’s the reason why I’m saying to is like, I just love to chat to people and figure out this little thing. Sometimes it’s like the Facebook Ads seem right. Everybody will jump straight away into them. Yeah, no, no, you’re not ready, don’t do it. Well, you solve and save 1000s of dollars to a small company that really thought they had everything figured out. And all those little things that they they’re happening in there just also Yeah, this is a great way to put is just magical.

Etan Efrati: If you want to, if you want to double click on that, the Facebook Ads like, so one of the projects that we took on from the earliest days of Design for Decks was trying to figure out a low touch product. So we’re crushing the services side, there’s like, not to like, you know, brag, but like there’s a waiting list right? Most of the time, and it’s really expensive to work with us. That doesn’t really help us kind of fulfill our mission of taking Jack’s design systems and pitch deck structures. And you know, all of what he has to give and bring that to the world bring it to a large amount of founders, not just the ones who are raising 10s of millions of dollars, right. And so from the earliest days, we’ve been trying to develop a much lower cost, higher volume, product. And we’re just like chipping away at that problem. So we have this masterclass, which is like a two hour course, we’re now launching a review service. So like, if you’re going out with a pitch deck, you want to start meeting with investors. First, you send it to us. And we’ll do like a tear down, kind of you know, you’re pitching us first. And we’re just like tearing it apart, giving you asynchronous feedback, and a lot of constructive criticism so that you could build up your pitch deck better before you go out to market with it. Another service that we’re working on, which is currently in beta is a bootcamp. So 4 live sessions together with asynchronous feedback, and it’s kind of this in between products. We’re getting a lot of early positive feedback on that. And that’s just like, build an investor ready pitch deck in under two weeks. The challenge we have with all these, sorry, just to kind of bookend that with the Facebook Ads, once we once we have one of these validated, then you can turn on the tap. The challenge with these low touch products is like people need to do the work. You know, the low touch is like, it’s not a done for you. Right? It’s a done by you. The tools will sell you the hammer, but you gotta hammer the nail yourself.

Marcos Bravo: But that’s cute. When you do that. Basically letting people build their own startup, I wouldn’t feel great. If like, right now I just paid for my pitch. Yeah, we raised 10 million, but I just pay for it. There was like this, there was nothing from you in there. You needed that, like little piece of you in there. And when you when you get stuff like you guys even just going through feedback, like we can help you build it. But you need to work on these things first, before we even build something that is growth, right? Is real development, people really working on their company, instead of just being like, well, here’s, I don’t know, $20,000 for pitch deck, and good luck.

Etan Efrati: Can I throw in something else about growth? I know you want to close it.

Marcos Bravo: No, go for it, go for it.

Etan Efrati: People don’t realize the dip. They always want like the up into the right. But like the dip, the down the failing the missing the shot. That’s part of it. And I just looked at some stats, the greatest NBA players of all time, Karl Malone, Wilt Chamberlain, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, like you name it, look up, you could Google this and find it. None of them have a field goal percentage, north of like 55%. Think about it, the greatest basketball players of all time, miss half of their shots. So I would say take the shot, you know, like, like analysis paralysis. Take the shot, you’re gonna miss half of if you’re the greatest.

Marcos Bravo: That’s how you become the greatest anyways, like and you need to do you need to go for it. There’s no other way.

Jack Zerby: You need to show up every day and keep going and keep going. I’m going through that with jujitsu. Now I just started in October. And I just get smashed every day by blue belts and black belts, and, you know, giant 250 pound Russian guys, and but I asked my coach the other day, I’m like this, you know, what’s the right mentality? He’s like, just keep showing up. He’s like, you’re gonna get smashed? It’s just the way that it is. But he goes, How long did it take you to do what you do now like to do at a black belt level, what you do with design and things like that? And I said, you know, it took 25 years, essentially, of me doing this day in and day out since I was 16 years old on the computer designing in Photoshop one, version one, Flash version one. And just doing a day in and day out. I mean, literally, like, 8 to 10 hours a day. I mean, ask any one of my friends. It was like, they’re watching a movie. And now it’d be on the theater watching the movie, but I’d be designing things. So that’s what it takes. And yeah, there’s going to be times where you’re going to be a terrible designer, you’re going to be a terrible marketer, you’re going to be terrible at all these things. But like, what did you expect? Like, that’s how you do it. And then you bring in coaches, right through grad GrowthMentor, I hired, I mean, I hire him. This black belts sixth degree black belt from Brazil, I pay him, you know, $100 a session every week. So I’m investing a lot of money in there. But you want the best, right? Like, if you’re gonna learn something, then take that shortcut and learn from the best it’s out there. So if you’re struggling with that, and you’re showing up every day, but you’re not seeing the results, that’s where you get a coach, aka GrowthMentor other places.

Marcos Bravo: It’s definitely harder and harder to quit when you have someone right next to you is like, No, you’re not quitting them.

Jack Zerby: Oh, yeah. He texted me like, Hey, are you doing Monday or Wednesday for the lesson? What am I gonna say? What am I gonna say?

Marcos Bravo: Are you coming or not? No, it’s like, When are you coming?

Jack Zerby: For me to quit now? It’d be very hard, right? I would have to like personally write him a message and then explain to him why I’m quitting which is probably a dumb reason, right?

Marcos Bravo:Probably come and get you.

Jack Zerby: Right. So like, that’s thing if you have these, if you have these mentors, whether you pay them or not, in fact, sometimes it’s better to pay them because the expectation is super clear on both ends. And, and that’s why I think it’s great on GrowthMentor, they have paid ones and free ones. So like if you kind of pick which one that you want, and the more you’re investing in that relationship, the harder it is to quit. And if you have somebody in there that knows if you’re be assing the excuse like So I can’t do this startup anymore because I have a full time job and I have kids. I’m like, okay, like, I’m across like four or five startups right now I have three kids school now there’s dance and snowboarding and all these things and jujitsu and all these things, but you just, that’s what you do. So that’s not a valid excuse. So I think it’s have someone in like in the cage with you or in the ring with you. Mike Tyson had the same thing when he was young. He had his coach that essentially molded him into who he was. So everyone has a coach.

Marcos Bravo: So having taking all the shots. Keep an eye on Facebook Ads. That’s the one that I’m not gonna go.

Jack Zerby: I want you to run ads now that their ad numbers are down. I wasn’t getting approved for a page one time a brand thing you know how they’ll say like, oh, you’re not? I said, I’m about to spend X amount of money that oh,

Marcos Bravo: Oh, approve your No, no, your approve you?

Jack Zerby: Oh, yeah, they want that they want that money.

Marcos Bravo: Guys, it’s been amazing chatting with you. I know it’s not gonna be our last chat. But for sure, we probably going to talk either here on GrowthMentor, or whenever you need a video guy as well for your team. So yeah, it’s been great guys. If you have to say one more thing, especially about your business, because I want people to go and check it out, especially like tons of founders and people like that are in GrowthMentor all the time. What would you say to them quickly, besides all of this board references that we went through, that were pretty cool too.

Etan Efrati: If you’re doing a pitch deck or working on your pitch deck right now, check out designfordecks.com. Even if the boutique service isn’t for you, reach out to us. Like we love talking to founders and we love helping founders. So we’ll find a way, you know to provide value. So yeah, just hit us up designfordecks.com.

Marcos Bravo: Sweet. Awesome having you here and we’ll see you soon.

Jack Zerby: Awesome. Thanks, Mark. Guys.

Etan Efrati: Take care Marcos.

Marcos Bravo: So thank you, everybody, for listening. I’m really looking forward. For the next episodes, we’re going to have amazing stories from our people, from the people who benefits from using the platform, stories of business being created and much, much more. So don’t forget to subscribe, follow the podcast, go and find us on our YouTube channel. And basically everywhere that we are all of our social media channels as well. So on behalf of GrowthMentor, thank you one more time for joining us today. My name is Marcos and I will see you next time. Cheers!